As I mentioned a few times before, there are some awesome online thinkers out there who are doing awesome things and sharing good content with the world. Nicole is one of them. We met in Atlanta about two years ago and have stayed in touch with her since. I’ve asked her [and a few other fabulous people] to share on a topic that is resonating with them in their current state of life. As she does, Nicole has brought to surface some interest topics! Enjoy. đ
In the chick flick, Julie and Julia (stay with me, guys), Julie asks her closest friend (the only one she likes), âWhat does it say about you when you hate your friends?â Her one true friend responds, âItâs normal to hate your friends.â
Julieâs husband automatically jumps in and states, âI donât hate my friends. Men donât hate their friends.â
So girlsâŚwhy do we hang out with friends we donât really like? And better yet, why is this (or is it?) happening in the church?
I have one sneaking suspicion that some women are friends with women they donât really like because women are perpetually in competition with one another. Who is skinnier? Prettier? Better-dressed? Who has more kids? Who has better behaved kids? Who has a cooler, sweeter, sexier husband (by the way, the answer to that one is me)? Who prays more, reads the Word more, worships louder, is Godlier?
You get the picture. Womenâs competitive nature with one another often leads to fruitless, superficial, ingenuous friendships. I am guilty of this. I have secretly been in competition with some women I know and have failed miserably. They never knew it, but I did. I admit too that yes, Iâve even had some friends that I havenât liked too much. Pitiful, I know.
I have learned recently, however, that the more honest, open, and transparent I am, the more my would-be-friends will be also. Choosing people you like and think are pretty cool doesnât hurt either. More than that, God has a value for friendship. The Bible is full of examples of rich, deep, meaningful relationships (does that sound corny? Maybe so, but it’s true).
And if we believe that God values friendship, then we must also believe that He values our friendships and that He has a desire to see us form genuine relationships with other women. People were built for community and fellowship. We have an inner need for intimacy and closeness. God made us that way, so we should take Him up on the offer.
So ladies, take the risk. Put yourself out there. Be sincere. Admit your mistakes, failures, and fears to another woman. You may get shut down or hurt, but what if you donât? What if a lifelong friendship stems from it? What if she becomes your next best friend (can anyone say âBFFâ)?
Also, we have to stop being afraid to set boundaries and tell the not-so-nice-and-not-so-cool-chicks to leave us alone or back off. We only have room in our lives for people who will edify us, care for us, and love us–and for whom we would do the same.
And, on the flip side, why is it so easy for men to form friendships? Why can men hang out once or twice and feel like some random dude is their best bro?
My husband says men are just simple. They donât over-think things. They are not quietly wondering if the guy they just met thinks heâs pretty, or smart, or a good mom⌠Get it ladies? Thatâs us. We do that.
Men can enjoy the moment much more than women. Women tend to think more of the moment after the moment. âWill she want to hang out with me againâŚlaterâŚtomorrow?â (Thatâs us again ladies.)
Women, letâs stop second guessing, over-thinking, and missing out on real friendship. And men, it wouldnât hurt if you taught us a thing or two about forming friendships. Seriously.
So whatâs the deal? Why do you think ladies have friends they dislike? Do you?
Why is it hard for women to form friendships? Why is it so much easier for men?
Hi. I’m Nicole Cottrell and I’m a hopeful romantic, baby wrangler, writer on a mission, and wife to my hero. Most importantly, a follower of the One. I’m the Modern Reject…Feel free to stalk me on Twitter or Facebook. You can also find me at ModernReject.com where I write about the uncomfortable stuff no one else likes to talk about.
I’m not sure I agree that it’s a competition that keeps us around friends we don’t like – I think it has more to do with women’s need for intimacy and a closer level of friendship? We crave community so much that we perhaps are more willing to stay around those who don’t necessarily add to our lives. OR we crave acceptance and friendship so much that we project perfection onto those we become close to, to an extent that they can’t measure up which harbours resentment.
But then I’m not a girl’s girl so I don’t really know! Plus I don’t open up (right B?!) so no one really stands a chance at understanding me so therefore I don’t like them. I’m a snotty teenager at heart!
That sounded way more negative than I intended! Sorry! You just got me thinking – I loved your thoughts.
Suzanne,
I think those are fair observations and ones that I touched on in this post.
I would agree that women’s need for community is, in part, what leads them to accept friends who perhaps aren’t the best.
Thanks for your thoughts. You gave me something to think about.
Hm. Men are simple. We are. We deal in respect while women deal in love. We deal in fact while women deal in emotion. My wife knows not to ask me how I “feel” about something, because I will look at her like she is an alien invader. She instead asks me what I THINK about things. Big difference. I, in turn, ask her for her feelings about things, and it works very well. It is a dynamic of our covenant, and we don’t seek to mess with it. She can come up with ten amazing suggestions on anything, but it takes me to make the final decision. That’s another dynamic of our covenant. But I digress.
I cannot honestly tell you why women are the way they are. Perhaps you are all bat-nuts crazy, and men are sane and normal. Ha! Jokes! I do know that my wife has confessed how she measures other women upon first meeting them, and it lines up with what you said here, Nicole. I laughed aloud at your comment that men seem to be able to make instant friends while women do not. It’s true.
Donald,
Men might just be the sane ones…but you didn’t hear that from me. I cannot betrray my own kind. đ
Also, thanks for being a true friend and hopping over to this blog and reading a chick post…and even commenting. You roll deep!
Hey, you know me. I’m all about river deep, mountain high.
Nicole,
And I neglected to mention: If you tell ANYONE I was here at a chick site, I will lie through my teeth about it. I’ll be all, “Nicole is lying, Nicole is lying!” I do have an image to maintain. Ha!
Just to clarify, though women do visit here more often, it’s not a “chick site.”
Bianca busted you. I said “chick post,” not chick blog. But I appreciate it nonetheless Donald.
My lips are sealed.
See? See how you two gang up on me!? And you chicks wonder why you can’t make immediate friends! Jokes, just jokes! đ
Interesting perspective and food for thought.
Thanks Nicole, for being vulnerable. You are not the only one. I watch my husband care WAY less about winning, earning, proving, staying “in” with friends than I do. Do relationships matter less to him? {maybe}? Another part of it is that my husband has a confidence about him that is not contingent or connected {much} to his relationships with his men friends. Simply put, perhaps men have less expectations on each other for becoming BFFs and that gives them freedom to just ‘be.’ ??
My husband definitely does not worry or think he’s being gossiped about, talked meanly about, slandered, by his male friends. There’s very little posturing going on with men, trying to earn or gain the BFF ‘spot’, slandering or judging the other, competing with one another out of insecurity.
As for friends I dislike, my tendency {unhealthy} is to try to win over or gain acceptance from women who do not like me or who have been not-so-nice in the past. I do not feel dislike on my end, but I sense it from others. I had an ah-ha moment though, when I was coaching my daughter through some friend issues and encouraging her not to play with friends who weren’t kind and loving toward her. I realized I needed to take my own advice and let go of friends who were repeatedly disloyal and untrustworthy. It’s been an area of growth, for sure. I am responsible for the jealousy, bitterness, anger, slander, mean-spirit yuck in my heart (on my side of the table), confessing it, taking it to Jesus, laying it down and humbling myself. I am NOT responsible for winning over any person–male or female. LOTS of freedom in this!
Simply put, perhaps men have less expectations on each other for becoming BFFs and that gives them freedom to just âbe.â ??
———-
Bingo.
Double bingo! đ
Love the honesty, Karen!
Karen,
Ah, the conviction that comes as parents. I’m so encouraged to know that the advice you have to your daughter was advice that you were able to recieve, as well.
That makes you a better mom and a better friend.
I’m a little confused by this one. Why would you be friends with someone you hate? am I the only lady scratching her head on this one? I can’t think of a friend I have who I dislike, or worse, “hate.” I do resonate with the competition among women. I think it’s something we ladies have to guard, and I have to constantly remind myself not to compare myself with other women. But I think our inner circle of friendships as women are there to be a buffer against that and keep us accountable to celebrate who we each are individually.
I’m right there with you scratching my head and wondering if this is really a thing. It’s honestly news to me that it’s a “woman” thing to not actually like your friends. I’m even a little fuzzy on the competing with your friends part. Feeling like you are in competition with others outside your circle is a whole other thing, but not friends. We can’t be the only two. I would also venture that most of my friends would actually feel the same way. Interesting.
Beth,
Fair enough, but the “hate” quote was a bit of hyperbole. It was a movie line, so yes, it’s exaggerated.
I admit myself, that while no, I haven’t *hated* a friend, I have had friends that left me feeling not good about myself–which would be fair to say, I didnt like them.
I agree so very much with your last sentence too. Yet, I feel like a lot of women aren’t able to find those close, trust-worthy inner circles–which lead me to write this post.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts Beth and adding to the discussion. Blessings!
I don’t think we CHOOSE friends whom we hate.
In my case, I’ve tried out friendships with women who, over time and getting to know them better, I have realized I don’t like very much. (Maybe she’s a liar or she’s overly self-centered, whatever–yeah, we’re all flawed). What do you do then? If (like me) you don’t make friends readily, you’ve already invested a lot of time and emotion and self, it’s hard to cut the cord and let her go.
What if you can’t find someone to fill that space?
Granted, pouring more time and energy into a bad relationship sucks away resources you could be using to seek out another.
But, as you pointed out, what if I get hurt or rejected? Sometimes the less-than-perfect known is better than the unknown.
I think men are actually more naturally competitive than women and that the kind of relational competition you’re describing stems from both insecurity and having a different kind of relational need. I’ve heard it argued before that one way in which women are the weaker vessel is that their well-being is somewhat contingent on the quality of their relationships. Research backs this up–women who have quality female friendships live longer than those who don’t.
I’ve noticed that my friendships are most rewarding when I’m focused on God’s purpose for me because I literally don’t have time for games or distractions. For me, it comes back to knowing who I am in Christ and investing in people who in whatever way bring God’s peace.
Ellen,
i agree that men are more competitive, but I do not think they are necessarily more competitive within friendships.
Men use things like sports, work, and other extracurricular activities to satisfy their competitive natures.
Interesting about women with more fulfilling relationships living longer. Although, I wonder too if that wouldn’t apply to all of us. People with pets live longer. The end result, is that we all need genuine and intimate relationships because, we were designed for them, after all.
Love your last sentence too! What wisdom.
This is something to defenitely think about…
I don’t have alot of friends, never really have I have always kept to myself. I guess I prefer it that way sometimes and my good close knit friends I can count with one hand. Maybe I need to be more open to other friendships… something I should work on… hmm, maybe.
Nicole, you’re onto something here. This is just what I needed to see today.
I think men, living in the moment, have an easier time accepting and interacting with other men in the moment. They are very good at living and letting live, they can enjoy a good thing while they’ve got it, and if they have to let it go, they can move on, much more easily than women.
Why?
Here’s a theory (warning – book alert):
Women are relational arrangers. We build our lives around the others in it. It’s more than feelings vs. facts – it goes deep into Eve’s psyche to arrange for her peace again, to get back to what she had in the Garden when Adam didn’t have a reason to blame her, when God was in her world and everything was okay. But trying to retrieve that peace without the grace of Christ is a recipe for relationships she hates but has to maintain.
Women aren’t competitive to be competitive. We’re competitive to be okay. Example: my sister was asked to live with some married friends of hers. The husband was the one who led the charge in getting her to move in; the wife went along with it. After she moved in, the wife began making rules about what she could and couldn’t do, about where she could and couldn’t be in the house. After my sister tried to talk with them and share with them who she was and where she was coming from, the couple left town for a “vacation” during which they consulted a number of counselors (with only partial information), and came back with a new life plan for my sister that included things THEY couldn’t have done themselves.
Because of fear, and probably some jealousy and insecurity in her own relationship, the wife has now forced my sister’s heart into a place where she has to CHOOSE whether or not to remain her friend. Even if she chooses the friendship, the trust has been destroyed, and she’s now in a position where she has to find a job and another living situation elsewhere.
Christian women are WORSE to other women than non-Christian women too, because we cloak our arranging in godliness. I’ve been sat down before and told by two of my best friends (who I really deeply loved) that a choice I made wasn’t okay because “it wasn’t producing fruit in my life.” Really? It was because I didn’t look like they wanted me to look. I wasn’t getting over it. I was still hurting deeply and struggling through a real life situation that was not resolvable.
I think women seek to gain their identity and their validation from an almost-artificial arrangement of people and living situation, family and relationships. This can ultimately lead to falsity – we all want to put our best foot forward, and we all are just swallowing our own vulnerability in any given situation.
I turn tail and RUN if somebody starts competing with me – to do the same thing as or try to be better than me – because they are more than that. My remaining in their life as a target is only going to distract them from becoming who they were meant to be. I have two friendships that receive a LOT of space from me because as much as I love these girls, I can’t compete with them, and their best life (and lowering my frustration levels with them) means I’m not in it as much.
Women need to learn to embrace the moment, to let it be what it is, and to hold onto the grace that says Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. We need to meet one another as who we are right where we are, be HONEST about what is going on in our hearts and in our heads, and stop arranging our lives the way WE think they should look. We block God and every other relationship in our lives when we do that.
Simply put, we should consider others better than ourselves. That’s where every good relationship begins.
@Kelly,
Your comments were brilliant.
I have friends I “tolerate” (hate sounds too nasty) because they are friends with my sister, but mainly because no one can be better friends with my sister than myself therefore I’m friends by association and keep them close enough to measure up and destroy any competition.
And I’ve just proven Donald right.
I’m bat-nuts-crazy.
If YOU’RE crazy, I’ve done lost my mind! đ Love you.
PS I hope you don’t tolerate me.
Just tossing this in here: for anyone who would like a little more insight as to why women and men are the way they are, you should read “Who Switched Off Your Brain?” by Dr. Carolyne Leaf. She is a neuro-scientist and a follower of Christ who breaks down the male and female brains and helps explain some of the tendencies of each respective gender. It’s a little “science-y” but a great read and so enlightening!!!
I agree that men make friendships easier because they do have fewer expectations, and are typically more emotionally secure than women. As ladies, we allow our insecurities to turn things into a competition. However, I feel like men aren’t as invested in their friendships as women are all the time. That is a generalization, I know. But I know lots of guys who could move states away from home and would miss their friends some, but would get over it. Women, however, once attached to a friend, find it excruciating to think of the idea of that friendship ending or weakening.
As a teenager, I definitely had acquaintances who I wasn’t really fond of because I knew they couldn’t be trusted. And, for quite a few years, I didn’t have any real close female friends because my supposed BFF burned me pretty bad. Needless to say, most of my close friends for quite a few years were men. And that’s a whole other topic. I can’t say I’ve ever hated anyone I called a friend while I was friends with them.
It wasn’t until I became a Christian that I found friends (women and men) who I truly do like and trust. When I first met my current group of friends, I made a point to hang out with the girls more because of past behavior. And I am glad and blessed that I did because now I have a community I trust, admire and look to for support.
I will add this: When I first met everyone I am currently friends with, it was a bit intimidating because they had all been friends for a long time and I was coming in as the newbie so, I was a bit envious of their obvious connection and affinity for each other. And it certainly doesn’t help that I am naturally shy when first meeting someone.
While I don’t experience this myself, I must say it is interesting to consider that this does occur in and out of the church.
I’m amazed by the story book chapter long responses to this post! đ
Great work, Nicole! I could relate to alot of what you said in this post.
I have been working really hard on this. I am letting my friends see my house when its messy (not waiting until its clean to have company), having them over for PB&J (not just using Pinterest recipes to impress people)… its a work in progress. Thanks for sharing!
Wani,
You just inspired me. Oh man! I could do the same. There should be freedom in friendship.
Kelly,
I agree with Donald–brilliant stuff.
I hope this is a book. Are you writing it?
At any rate, I think there is such wisdom is recognizing that no, women are not as good as men at living in the moment. This shift could change so much for women. However, I would argue that women aren’t expressely designed to only live in the moment.
I’m a mom of three small children. My husband is a wonderful father, but he does not think of the things to come with our kids or the potential harm a set of circumstances could bring. He lives int he moment with them. I try to, as well, but I also think ahead and “arrange” our life for their future.
Women and men are different for a reason, but that is not to say that we don’t have a great dealt to learn and gleam from one another.
Such great stuff to chew on. Thanks for sharing!
Very interesting discussion.
I’m another one of the women who has not had friends that I “didn’t like”. I am a busy mother of 12 children, and I purposefully put time and effort into friendships with woman who will be an encouragement to me, and me to them.
I also must put in a word about men friendships. My husband has always wished that he had deep and meaningful friendships like we women have. While he might go paintball with the guys, or play on a baseball team, he does not consider those relationships true friendships. He desperately wants other men to go deep with, to talk about spiritual things, parenting, etc …
Twelve years ago, my husband and a “friend” drove 1100 miles each way to watch the Rose Bowl. We had been “friends” with this man and his wife for almost 10 years. During their 4 or 5 days together, my husband could not get this man to go deeper than talking about the weather. Seriously. Parenting? Nope. Christianity? Nope. (We’d gone to church together for 10 years.) Seriously, this guy “friend” could only talk about the weather and the football game they were going to watch. That’s it.
Funny thing . . . we moved away 12 years ago, and this “friend” and his wife have made out-of-town trips for all of our kids weddings. But … we still don’t talk about much besides the weather. đ
Laurel
mama of 12 (ages 10, 10, 12, 13, 15, 19, 21, 23, 23, 25, 26, 27)